Ben je benieuwd naar hoe Mima Museum zich financieel recht trok na een financieel moeilijkere periode en tijdens de coronacrisis? In deze podcast gaat onze cultuurredactie dieper in op de feiten samen met Raphael Cruyt, medeoprichter van het MIMA. De podcast is opgenomen in het Engels. Beluister de podcast en lees het volledige transcript hieronder.
Transcript
Paulien: Hi everyone! Welcome to a new episode of Project B podcasts. As you can hear, this podcast is recorded in English. You can find a full transcript below this recording. Today, as part of our cultural theme, we’re talking to Raphael Cruyt, cofounder of MIMA, the contemporary art museum in Brussels.
Hi Raphael! I hope you are doing fine. First of all, I want to thank you again for participating in our project. During the podcast, we’ll focus on your museum, MIMA, and how it has dealt with the pandemic.
So, for starters, let’s do a little introduction. Can you explain, more generally, what MIMA is?
Raphael: The MIMA museum is a citizen project to create a museum, but more independent from public, from the public finance. In 2016, we, the MIMA, opened the gates of the museum. And, then, it has been 5 years now. And, that was the idea: to be more independent, meaning financially and also in the content, more independent, also, from the market, art market. Paulien: Okay. And then, more specifically, what is your function within MIMA?
Raphael: So, at the MIMA, I’m co-founder of the MIMA, with a few other people: Michel and Florence De Launoit and also Alice Van Den Abeele, who is my wife. I’m also co-creator for exhibition. I do that with my wife, also. We do everything together. And, then, we try to elaborate a program having meaning to create a kind of a collective history for the community. It is difficult to define the term ‘community’. But it’s a term targeting something first really local, and then wider and wider. The terms of community fade away, I guess. But that’s the idea.
© MIMA http://www.mimamuseum.eu/about/ From left to right: Michel De Launoit, Florence De Launoit, Alice Van Den Abeele & Raphael Cruyt
Paulien: Okay, that’s really nice. And, also, related to this community thing, MIMA is located in the center of Brussels, in Molenbeek. What is the relation between MIMA and its location in Brussels?
Raphael: First, we find the place. It was a little bit random. I lived for 15 years just behind the MIMA. So, I know really well the neighborhood. It’s my place. When Michel started to look for a place, it was important to be in the center of Brussels, because if you want to create a meaningful community, looking for the future, you need to be close to the younger population. The younger population lives in the center of Brussels, and not in the south or the north. It is really the place, I think, with more… The place collects all the good points. It fills the grid of the positive points. There is a lot of young people in Molenbeek. Around 25% of the population is under 25 years old. It’s really popular – really important, too. It’s in the center of Brussels – that was really important. And, then, it’s cheaper than the rest of the center of Brussels. Finally, that was on the paper what I’m saying. The first opening of the MIMA was scheduled the 22 March 2016. It was the day of the attack, the Brussels attack. It’s true that has changed the connection, the reason, the meaning of the MIMA in the neighborhood. Because, suddenly, it became quite obvious it was not the center of Brussels, it was Molenbeek more than Brussels. The MIMA became instantly an item, a kind of symbol of something positive from this part of the city. We realize that was really important to create this strong bond with the neighborhoods. For that, we have multiple tools to create that – let’s say the classical tools – through local organization. We invite people in different ways. And, also, working… We have this project that I like really much. But with COVID it is a bit suspended. For a long time, we did parties with the local boxing club. We thought it could be interesting to create, to put the MIMA in the psychological map of the city. To not invite people to see an exhibition, but more to party, to become part of the life of the people, of the young people of the neighborhood. That was the idea. It was really cool, actually. This boxing club is called BBA. They succeed with the times to mix, completely diversify, and that was astonishing. Creating parties was a good way to melt everything together. Then, COVID has a little bit jeopardized the project. Because, when you suspend the sport for 2 years, what happens is… When the club will open again the doors, the public will be different. We have to start again. We don’t have anymore roots. But, I like the idea to create bonds through unconventional ways.
Paulien: Okay, so community and the local aspect is very important. And, then, due to COVID, unfortunately, you had to close, like the boxing club, too, but also like a lot of other museums or other cultural activities. And during these times, you launched a crowdfunding. Can you tell us a little bit more about this crowdfunding?
Raphael: The crowdfunding has two aspects. First, of course, we have financial goals. That’s important for us, because the finance of the MIMA comes for 45% from the ticketing, which is for a cultural institution really high, a high percentage. So, the idea of Michel was first to put a first target reachable, 15.000 euros. And, the second one, eventually. That was, of course, a goal we succeed. That has been really important for us, because, like I said earlier, it was a compensation for the lost of earnings from the ticketing. So, for us, it was not a detail, it was really important. But also above that, the reason of the MIMA is to be an institution from the citizen by the citizen. I think we have to fight for what we like. If we, people, don’t want to support the MIMA, the MIMA has no reason to exist. So, when you create a crowdfunding, you can see if you find support, or not. For us, that’s also a philosophical aspect of the thing that is really important for us.
Paulien: Okay. So, these are basically the fundamentals of the idea of organizing the crowdfunding. And you also talked about the first goal, 15.000 euros. But, eventually, you reached a result almost double the goal. That’s really amazing! Also, because you were talking about the ‘by citizen, for citizen’ thing. The received amount was 27.111 euros. How do you feel about this?
Raphael: I’m really glad, because it’s a collective synergy in this case. It has created an emulation, for everybody. I participate to other projects like that. Like, right now, to support the movie theater. When you participate to your own culture, when you support it, you belong to something that’s above you. I think it’s something that people are looking forward to. Let’s see what the future of culture will be. My opinion is, for now, in the plastic art world, everything is mainly financed by the public or its private connection: really rich men presenting their own works, their own collection for their own name. Let’s say it like that. It’s okay, but we need a thing to be more resilient, different ways to find culture. The MIMA has this objective. Maybe, we don’t have the good… we didn’t find the good solution. The future will say. But the idea is to propose a new way to approach the culture. Not better, it’s not a bad quality, it’s just to be more resilient and more independent from public finance. I think about an example. I know that, in the Flemish part, ‘the canon’ was imposed to the cultural world. I remember having this discussion in 2016 with official people of the government. At this time, the canon was already there, but not obliged. There was an envelope with money for projects which could match the canon. The cultural institution didn’t really move to get this money, because it was imposing a vision of society they didn’t want to. But, lately, when the Flemish government decided to cut the fund and to reduce the money in the culture, then we saw a lot of projects matching the perspective from the government. I don’t say it’s wrong, because I think what I liked in this canon from the Flemish government is the government just remind to the population that culture has a political objective. It’s not like that. It’s always political. Culture is political. Otherwise, it’s nothing. For this reason, I respect that. What I’m saying is, when we live this situation, we see that maybe other ways to finance culture could give this alternative way to think. In this perspective, I think MIMA is interesting, because it’s some part of the way we work, which could be, I don’t know, interesting for the future or for another project.
Paulien: Yeah, of course! I agree. And, so, the original goal was to reach 15.000 euros. 50% of each euro or each ticket purchased in advance goes to the purchase of respirators for the hospital in Brussels, the University Hospital Sint-Pieters in Brussels. So, is this also involved with the idea you were talking about to not only reach money for MIMA, but also for charity?
Raphael: Yes, of course. I think culture is part of the society. I think it’s all about scale of emergency. In this case, it was… it seems quite obvious to say: okay, the MIMA, it needs your support. Actually, we are not the only one. For this reason, it seems quite obvious. I was really glad to succeed to do that. And again, I think it’s a philosophy. I think the idea with Michel, Florence and Alice, behind that, I think we waited too much from above. I think we should be a little bit, like the culture is, more transversal. When we see something that need or support, or that we want to support, we can go straight to it, and not waiting for approval from the government or the support of the government. I think that was the case with the money for the hospital. That was the idea. I like this idea to be more… There are different ways… I mean we are not the only one, many people do it also. It’s so great when you succeed to do that.
Paulien: Yeah, of course! It is. And, if we’re looking at non-visitors, how did they respond to this amount of money you’ve reached?
Raphael: Sorry, I didn’t hear the question.
Paulien: Okay, I’m sorry. Looking at non-visitors, so people from Brussels for example, how did they respond to this amount of money?
Raphael: I don’t know. The money we succeed to reach… The amount comes from people following the MIMA. Then, you always speak to your own bubble. It’s impossible to know what people think outside of it. It’s the same with people in the neighborhood. The MIMA is known and unknown in the neighborhood. It’s the same thing. I cannot answer to that, honestly. Let’s say it like that. The MIMA is still a small project. There are more people who don’t know about the project than people that know. We see that in the amount of visitors. We have around 60.000 visitors per year. It’s nothing if you look at the population of Brussels.
Paulien: Okay. And then, how did visitors respond to the amount raised?
Raphael: People were happy. Really happy. Also because it was linked to a charity goal. It makes sense. More sense, let’s say. The problem with culture is: you don’t see the results. If you buy – what we did for the hospital – you see immediately the results, the benefit of it. When you invest in culture, it’s the same with school. When you invest in school, you don’t see the results of the quality of it before years. Even then, you don’t realize where it comes from. But nevertheless, I mean, humanity is the result of a knowledge, an accumulation of knowledge. That’s culture. For this reason, you cannot really say… It’s difficult to just visualize it clearly in people’s mind. So, linking the target of the MIMA with the charity, I think, was also for the strategic reason really interesting.
Paulien: Okay, and did you get any other support from organizations in Molenbeek or from Molenbeek the city itself?
Raphael: No, Molenbeek has no money. It’s a detail, but we try to have just the name of the MIMA, you know, in these small information panels that you can see. It’s 200 euros. I say: “Okay, let’s see in 2 years if we can do it”. So, that’s the level of the situation. We don’t expect support. I mean, they have their own problems. It’s quite poor. It’s one of the poorest places in Europe. For this reason, we really belong in the preoccupation of the municipality. The other institutions in Molenbeek, or other organizations also quite straight. Let’s say it like that.
Paulien: Okay. And for example the boxing club you were talking about, did they something to support you in these times?
Raphael: No, not really, because the boxing club has its own problems. They closed the doors, and to try to keep the motivation of the young people. It’s social boxing, that’s the goal of the club. It’s not to push the boxers to the top level, but small, local approach of the boxing. And, of course, not, because they cannot afford it. I mean that’s the thing with the boxing club. Many people expect many things from them, but, first of all, they are trainers. They do amazing work for the community. They do not pay for it, they ask for that. It’s crazy. I just want to add something about that… I didn’t have any background in institutional fields or in social activities and things like that. I was really amazed to see the importance of people working on human level. It’s something that… Politicians have difficulties to understand you need time to create bounds and meaning, and to improve a local situation. That’s really on a human level. You cannot pour money and expect a result for that. I’m saying that because, from time to time, the boxing club is approached by politics for projects. But they expect results, you know, it doesn’t work this way. It’s much more longer time, period of time you need to see results. So, it’s difficult to encapsulate that in a political perspective.
Paulien: In the beginning of your answer, you were also touching upon COVID. COVID has obviously brought a lot of change with it. At certain moments, especially when museums like MIMA needed to close, you, as a central person for MIMA, needed to make prompt decisions. For example, on October 26, 2020, museums needed to close again. So, the crowdfunding, did it help to succeed this period?
Raphael: Actually, not at this time. The crowdfunding succeed to support the MIMA during the summer. In October, it was not anymore the case. But what we did is: in September, we decided to extend the exhibition to the end of the year. So we had a margin, a financial margin, for this reason. The reason why we’ve passed the winter, because of this extended exhibition. That’s the reason why.
Paulien: Okay, so you extended the exhibition. And had people also the opportunity to already pay for their tickets in advance?
Raphael: Yes, we did it. It’s the same right now. People have to… They are obliged to book online. And, it’s… Nobody knows exactly what the future will be. But, right now, people book online and we try to stay flexible. I think it’s really difficult to change the mentality of people to book online. I have to say I was really impressed to see when I called people in their thirties, thirty years old, to book tickets, to see exhibitions online. I think… I was amazed, because I never did it myself before COVID. I was surprised to see so much young people do it.
Paulien: So, yeah, they really keep on supporting the cultural aspect, which is also really nice. And, then, let’s move on to our final question. We also touched upon it a little bit. However, this question might be a little bit trickier, because right now, it’s difficult to say what is going to happen in the future because of COVID. But, how do you think the future will look like for cultural activities, such as museums, and then especially also for MIMA?
Raphael: First of all, I think, it’s a bit personal, I don’t have a crystal bowl. I think the situation, the access to museums will not change, I don’t know, before a year. Because, I think we are going to live this jojo situation, with more flexibility and then more restrictions for the population. We’ll see. The summer arrives and there is so much economic at stake. In September, we go back in this same situation as right now. For this reason, I think, we are going to live through more or less the same situation for another year. It means… I think that will change, that will shape at the end, the culture, the people, the thing about culture, the meanings, the reason why we go to the museum or not. Going to a museum during COVID is not the same as before. I mean, when the opportunity to travel is limited, when you live in a kind of oppression, fading of things, whatever, when the context is heavy, I think you go to see an exhibition, but you need a kind of answer, a kind of freshness to balance a little bit the morosity of it. For this reason, that will affect the content of exhibition at the end, because people will be looking after something not too heavy, maybe also. I don’t say it’s good or bad, it’s not the question. I think that will change the program a little bit. After COVID, I don’t know, I think nobody knows. I hope the crisis will be an opportunity to change many things. It changed already for the MIMA, because with COVID we… It was even a little bit before COVID… COVID just was a kind of speed up the wheels of change. The change is for us: looking for more local creators than in the past. When we opened the gates of the MIMA the idea was to focus on this global culture, the positive side of this global culture. But we see all the problems linked to that today. And, also, for ecologic reasons, the importance to dig more locally and to be more responsible for this ecological impact. It’s symbolic, but it’s really important for us.
Paulien: So, MIMA does really fulfill different roles, like the societal role, community role, cultural role, but then also ecological. So, yeah, different roles.
Raphael: Yes, of course, it’s symbolic. We do politics first, then we consume. Buying vegetables this way or this way. Going to see an exhibition, to listen to music, whatever we do, I think, has an impact. And as an institution, we want to try not to be an example, because, I think, we are far from a good example. But we try to improve our situation, because we need it as a person.
Paulien: So, right now, we’ve reached the end of the podcast. Do you want to add some final words, Raphael?
Raphael: What could I say? I don’t know. Let’s say… What I’m saying in this podcast is recalled in this COVID situation, and let’s take this crisis as an opportunity to really change things. I think it will be too bad to not take advantage of it.
Paulien: Okay. And, also, what I’ll remember from the things you’ve said is that culture… We have different perspectives to look at culture. Mostly, and for a long time, they have been looking at it from a higher perspective. And you’ve been saying is that we need to look at it from a lower perspective, more community involved, more locally, which is really nice, I think. And, also, to use the opportunities because of COVID to create something bigger.
Raphael: Exactly.
Paulien: Lastly, I want to thank you again, Raphael, for making the time to join us in this podcast. It has been very interesting! And, I also want to thank you guys for listening. I hope you enjoyed it!
Raphael: Thank you.